The Nazareth Swim Team currently practices and competes at Wilson HS. They previously did so at the Nazareth YMCA.
Pysher is incredulous that the NASD would consider a new agreement with the YMCA. She claims the YMCA facility is not up to standards and that YMCA members will not have use of the pool and should remember this was their concern the last time the team was there.
She further claims the offer is being made only to earn money to fund the renovations taking place and that the YMCA will cancel once it is done.
Having been at the Board Meeting and coincidentally sitting behind Frank Frey, Executive Director of the YMCA, he was kind enough to give me a copy of the offer to the Board.
According to the letter the YMCA is offering:
- Exclusive use of the YMCA swimming pool for two hours immediately following or before every school day for HS Swim Team practice during the PIAA swimming season.
- Use of the YMCA swimming pool for home swim meets.
- Use of the YMCA pool for off-season practice for swim team members.
- Use of the new wellness center for land training for swim team members.
- Exclusive use of the new multipurpose room for land training for swim team members immediately following the school day.
- Use of the pool for PE classes to teach swimming to students (grade level determined by NASD).
Pysher notes that the team has nearly 50 members. The offer notes it will charge the same rate the NASD currently pays Wilson with annual increases based on "the cost of living index used to calculate administration wage increases." I don't know what that contract is currently, but I do believe it is less than $200,000 maintenance cost and far less than the $625,000 cost of maintenance plus debt service. When you consider these costs against the number of students who will be using the facility for 3.5 months it is very costly.
In a perfect world a pool would be nice. When given these two options in light of our current budget crisis, the YMCA option is the more responsible decision.
34 comments:
If I remember correctly, the boys lacrosse club became a varisty team sport this year at a cost of $17,000. It seemed that the lacrosse team tried for several years to get school funding for their club before they got their wish. My question is, why do we even have a swim team when we could fund 8 or 10 other varisty sports with the same money? How did the swim team gain so much power with the school board? I'd personnaly like to see up drop the swim team all together. At a cost over $1500 per athlete on the swim team, what other sport even comes close to this expense. The Nazareth tax base should not be punished because some NJ transplant didn't do their homework and check to see if the school had a pool before they moved to here. Why are we catering to the transplants and not the overall community?
The debt service numbers are obviously inflated. The Y is making the offer because the middle school community use would put them out of business. I'm, however, not saying the pool should be built or that there aren't better uses for those funds. The Y is not the best facility for a swim team but its better than nothing. The agreement for the use should be long term and have teeth.
Two quick notes. First the new IS with pool is not there, if it is built, to be a cheap country club. Join the Y and support a great organizaton.
Second, I beleive it is time to exam the entire world of High School sports given that they have become more and more the farm teams for colleges. Let me note that I played sports, coached them, and still engage in walking, weight traning, and have an unbelievable passion for golf.
How many school districts in the Lehigh Valley don't have a pool at their school district ?? Not many, can you name them ? Nazareth is a well to do district and desrves a pool. I'd like a little more detail ona number I keep hearing that the pool will cost 5 mill ?? I dont understand. With the pool you will also be bringing in revenue, ie; lessons, lifeguarding classes etc. Bottom line - get it done !
Nazareth is a well to do district and desrves a pool...ah, ignorance is bliss.
The numbers I quoted were from the finance committee of the Board provided at the last school board meeting.
They determined $200,000 for annual pool maintenance (swim team costs were not included).
They also noted that eliminating the pool would save $265,000 in planning and $425,000 from the annual debt service.
They did not mention $5 million at the meeting.
If I take $425,000 x 30 years it seems the pool will cost close to $13million. It could be that the $425,000 was only a year one savings, but that wasn't how I understood it at the meeting.
Also, the NASD has never stated that the pool would be available for public use. Not too many groups get to use the stadium football field. There would have to be staff issues, security issues, utilities, additional maintenance, insurance etc. if the pool were opened to the public and I'm not aware that this was ever discussed. I don't see this pool as competition for the YMCA.
To Anon 11:28
You are right. Most other districts do have a pool, so we NEED to have one as well.
Hey, Bethlehem has a Planetarium at Freedom High School, thus, we NEED one too. Let's build it now.
Nazareth doesn't have it's own Vo-Tech, so we NEED one.
Forget the costs, the other districts have one, so should we even it it puts all the rest of us in tax debt.
We are a well to do district. Everyone is rich and there is absolutely no one living from paycheck to paycheck here.
As 11:51 said, ignorance is bliss, you must be one of the happiest people in the world.
The Letter that frank gave to the board stated that year round use would be availible for INTRESTED swimmers and that sounds pretty shady to me. the team has been swimming for 13 years and for those of you who dont know some of us swimmers have lived here all of our lives, in 4 years when this is completed the swimmers who fight now will be paying the taxes too!
You people want to save some money?
how bout the red brick and the whitefield design stone?
why are we adding a aditorium that only fits half of the projected enrollment?
we have 4 stages already including the 1000 seat aditorium at the high school, the LGI stage at the high school, the LGI stage at Shafer, and the middle school auditorium all of which are within a little over a mile from each other. So why build a 5th?
why build another football field/statium?
all weather track?
wrestling rooms?
why build all of these and question a pool?
we didnt ask for a 57 million dollar school! all we asked for is a pool so that we can call it home. But we decided to spend money on a planetarium instead, which most have never seen the inside of. We were at the ymca until 2004, and in that time we went from 5 to three lanes. we werent allowed to use the facilities after people complained of us being there, and even swimmers that were members of the YMCA WERE DENIED ACCESS TO THE FACILITIES. we couldnt even leave the building to run! we were given a hallway which people frequently passed through to get to the locker room and everytime we had to stop and move then continue. I remember a number of times when Mr. Fry yelled because people were complaining of us being in th hallway. The attendence at practices then was low constantly because of sickness and infections due to the atmosphere and water in the pool! Before you call my team a transplant maybe you should do your homework and buy a house that you can afford!
In 2000, there were 3,482 unintentional drownings in the United States, an average of nine people per day.
U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention
YOU ASK WHY WE SHOULD EDUCATE PEOPLE ON HOW TO SWIM?
I THINK WE SHOULD BE LEARNING TO SWIM RATHER THAN PLAYING FLAG FOOTBALL!
It is estimated that for each drowning death, there are 1 to 4 nonfatal submersions serious enough to result in hospitalization. Children who still require cardiopulmonary resuscitation (CPR) at the time they arrive at the emergency department have a poor prognosis, with at least half of survivors suffering significant neurologic impairment.
American Academy of Pediatrics
HOW MANY MORE WILL IT TAKE, TILL ITS YOURS?
Hey we do have planitarium in the high school! And I attend Bethlehem Area Vocational Technical School so does saucon valley liberty freedom northampton, its not just BETHLEHEM's VOTECH! Im top in my class there, and im not the only one! So lets get a pool! Im tired of driving to and from the banana factory everyday wasting gas because i cant get a van intime, and im tired of leaving early everyday so i can make a bus to wilson, because i am designing the mascot for BAVTS so we can show it to the higher ups and use it in promotion and that takes time that your taking away from STUDENTS LIKE ME! SO dont even go there when liberty freedom saucon valley northampton easton wilson william allen parkland and emmauss, pocono mountian, hell even deriuff has a pool! So im thinking its more than just popular for a school to have a pool!
and why does noone post there name what are you afraid of having an opinon?
We need a pool... So lets get one... We have a football field... so lets- o wait why are we getting another one?
POOL POOL POOL POOL!
Do we have a ski club? MAybe we could take some of the MOUNTAINS and piles of dirt that developers are piling up everywhere and have our own ski paths , lifts , and whatever else necessary. Don't forget a clubroom so all the ski-ers can come inside and get warm and have hot chocolate and the parents can have a glas of wine . Now let's see -----what else can we spend money on?!?!?!
So far, I've read 9 reasons we should build a pool...
1.) everyone else has one
2.) we are well to do school district and can afford it
3.) the YMCA is substandard
4.) every other NASD sport has their own field/room/equipment
5.) learning to swim can save your life adn without a pool many lives will be lost
6.) the proposed school will be expensive, so why not cut back on the school to build a pool
7.) we have too many auditoriums so its not fair to not have a pool
8.) we should downgrade our housing choice to afford more taxes to cover the cost of a pool
9.) students are wasting time and gas money driving to the Wilson pool.
Althoug thoug reason are pretty good, I can name 5 million ($) reasons why we should not build a pool.
I'm not against the pool...
I'm against the pool being built at the MS. Heck, I'm against the MS being built (I think they should build another ES), but that's a fight for another day....
If the athletic building is still in the works, then we should consider the pool at that building. Not as a "throw-in" to the MS plans.
If we were to scrap this MS concept (and the 4-6 structure, which I am totally against), and build an ES, I think we could save enough money to build the pool at the planned athletic facility. Think of the savings:
1) ES is much cheaper to build than a MS (no large gyms, auditoriums, etc).
2) Transportation costs would be less because we would not have an extra centralized school (4-6, 7-8, HS) to bus kids to and from.
3) We don't need to buy/condemn(?) the Callandra's land at a cost of $640K to build a couple more practice fields.
Build a new ES somewhere out in West Upper Nazareth Twnsp and consider a pool in the athletic building where it belongs.
My understanding was the pool would be less expensive at the lower level of the new gym complex and the first new school building on Friedenstahl Ave was to be 4-6th grade. We could afford both. Now if we could only cut other expensives off the new 7-8 building. We still might be able to afford the pool at the gym complex where it should be. The 7-8 building to way to even expensive even without the pool factored in.
I am not against having a pool in NASD. I think a pool should have been put into play when the middle school was built. My problem is that the NASD just built a school a few years ago and now a few years later we need another school and a sports complex. I agree with Brad..why not build a new elemantary school and try to add a pool to the current MS. We already have plenty of auditoriums and we already have a football feild. I think this new school they are planning to build is ridiculous to house only 2 grades. Does anyone realize there is 87 acres of land for sale between aluta mill rd and bushkill center road? I wonder how many new homes this will bring and is this area in our school district and how many more kids are likely to come to our schools . I don't think this MS is going to cut it, if it were all class rooms I wouldn't be worried but to add all this exspense and tax burden to the residents of this community is awful. As for you kids on the swim team, us tax payers aren't against the swim team , we are against uneccessary spending and high taxes because we have families to feed and when you are out of school and start paying taxes you will see what we are talking about. You can't always have what you want and it is easy to spend someone else's money but when you are paying for it you realize what is a neccessity and what is a luxury and at this point a pool is a luxury.
Don't get caught up in the side issue of the pool because the real issue is the Intermediate School that is being planned. Those of you who claim you will be out of school and coming back to live here might find yourself unable to do that due to high taxes and the high price of homes. You will not be leaving college and going onto six figure salaries. The pool and the Intermediate School as well as the sports complex need to be stopped now. Despite a few expensive homes that have been erected in the district, the average working family does not make enough money to be taxed at an astrnomical millage that will put them into the alms house.
Brad-Please bring it up, and out, to the forefront on Feb 12th as you speak the voice of reason that we have yet to hear from the board-
I didn't post earlier because Brad pretty much summed up my thinking.
The MS is not what we need. A two grade building with no opportunity to handle 3 grades that houses mid 1300 students and our largest current is 420, will result in a waste of space and way too many redundant facilities (as many others have mentioned).
A k-6 elementary, making current MS 7 & 8, would give us more flexibility in the future because it would save a lot of money.
If we are going to build a pool, I think it ought to be in the new gym to share facilities (locker room, weight room, etc.).
At the same time, I don't know if the cost is worth the gain no matter where we put it.
If the Y offers its space as they say, we save a significant amount of money.
If we build it and maintain it, I only see additional fees, not revenues.
We can argue that other places have pools, and they do, but have any of them come out and said they were profitable or worthwhile investments? I would guess with them in place they would, but there are also schools with rifle ranges in our conference.
Are we going to put a rifle range in next?
I'd doubt it.
The YMCA has given us the facility and resource needs the swim team needs, yet the supporters of the team scoff.
I think having this deal is much better than not having a team at all.
The NASD is not compelled to have a program. They have one to give these student-athletes an opportunity. It is becoming clear that this opportunity is not appreciated. And that is a shame.
The cost to have a pool compared to the time and number of students served is significant. The Y option seems to be the best way to meet the students needs and be budgetarily responsible.
Anon 11:32 - we crossed in the dark so to speak, but Brad needs your support.
He can speak up, but it will be to no end if people don't attend the meeting.
One person asking a question in isolation is commendable, but it does little to sway opinion of the Board unless there are many individuals in attendance, in support.
Hey 3:55pm anon: I am a happy person, shouldn't we all be ? !
hey Ross 11:32 was me kelley should have signed my name, and yes I have attended most every bosrd mtg this school year and yes I will stand beside and offer support but question if I can truly speak with the clarity and conviction needed to make a logical argument and opinion but am so for your K-6 plan that would do any of the so called legwork to solicit support and thus hopefully attendance to the 2/12 meeting because I do think there may be a slight window of opportunity but like you said it would be an uphill battle-just was nominating Brad as speaker or you for that matter :)
Anon 12:46 (Kelley ;)
I'll be there on 2/12. I will also try and put some additional information together to present to the board. It's a long shot no doubt, but nothing ever comes without trying.
Again it wa smy understanding the pool's plan was to cost about 2-3 million and be on the lower level of the new gym complex. With the 7-8 building a 4-6. This is a do able option that seems much more cost effective. The pool is a good drape to hide all the other cost. Why still 50 million for tow grades without the pool?
Nazareth is behind the times here. The nazareth YMCA isn't going to cut it. lets give the kids the pool they want.
kelley again-
interesting article in Express Times today reg the Bethlehem Township Community Center.
It has an indoor and outdoor pool along with other recreational facilities. Article stated they were not making a profit but were holding their own in a community of 26,000 with 92% of their membership from residents---don't know how to link the article or I would--anyhow thought it was of interest given our current situation--and reminded me of the poor condition of our Nazareth park pool etc--be interested what others thought of this article--
To those supporters of the pool that have posted here, and I am guessing that you are either members of the swim team or have children on the swim team.
Those of us that are calling on the district to stop their current plans are NOT against building a pool, just doing so as it is currently being planned.
Take a few courses in economics. The district is planning to borrow and spend way more than the current tax rates can handle, which means us home and business owners get hit with higher taxes to pay the ever increasing price tag on the debt service.
Most likely, the tax increases will be so high that they will have to go for voter approval, which they most likely won't get. So the district will have to start cutting costs.
Where do you think those cuts are going to happen? STUDENT activities and sports.
In the long run, you might get your pool, but you could also lose you team due to funding cuts.
If the district wasn't so quick to throw $50-some million at a school that doesn't make sense, then there would be no issues with putting in a district pool (provided it was put in a logical location).
If you notice, the "anti" posters here have been as much against the all weather fields as they are against the pool. We just can't affort either of them if they go ahead with their current IS/MS plans.
I really think this forum could do great things for the community. But I desperately need to understand why posters feel a need to degrade and insult the others that have differing opinions. It only decreases the weight of your opinion in my eyes. It would be a great if everyone would discuss and debate the issues on this site with the same respect they would give their grandmother.
The Bethlehem Township Community Center made over $1 million dollars in fees and revenues last year. Not sure how much it cost to build or operate.
This whole pool issue is ridiculous, why do we even debate the need for a pool?? Nazareth is so far behind the times and needs to get a pool for many reasons.
1. REVENUE- Before any of you denounce the pool and say it costs too much, do you have any idea how much money can be gained by renting out the pool in a year? Just in case you were wondering, the Wilson middle school makes almost 11,000 dollars a year from JUST the Nazareth High School team. Think of all the other money like memberships, children's lessons, possibly holding invitationals, safety courses....
2. YMCA = LIARS WHO WANT MONEY- The only reason the YMCA is offering their facilities is because they want more money. Frank Frey is a monopoly in the area and he knows it. Anyone know what happened the last time the team was at the YMCA??? We went from 6 lanes down to 3, half of what is required for a team of 50 people to flourish. The use of gym and weight room facilities was taken away due to complaints from the members. Also, I'm sure a non-profit organization, most likely charging near 20,000 dollars a year for use of half a pool, would love the publicity of seeming so nice and offering facilities. As soon as this whole thing cools down and no one is listening anymore, the YMCA will take away the use of a few lanes and weight/cardio rooms. The YMCA is just not going to cut it.
3. DISEASE- This also ties in with the YMCA but the last time the team was there, almost half the team was absent every other day. People were contracting upper respiratory diseases left and right due to the bad conditions. In order for the YMCA to have senior classes, the water and air need to be like a sauna, which is unbearable and unacceptable to ask someone to train in an atmosphere like that.
4. TAXES- The district is building a 55 million dolar pool, taxes are going to go up, people need to accept that. Of the millage increase, the pool will have to do with a very small fraction of that.
5. DROWNING- So many people die per year because they do not know how to swim, we can decrease that number so much in nazareth because of children's classes. It should be a requirement to graduate from school that you know how to swim.
6. SWIMMERS- The swimmer deserve this because they have no where else to go, the YMCA is completely unacceptable. Why build an entire new facility for the football team when they win 2 games?? For all of those uninformed, the girls team has an unbelievable record of 11 and 4.
The bottom line is that people are uninformed, almost every school in the surrounding area has a pool. It generates great revenue and can be life-saving if put to proper use. The YMCA will just keep taking away part of what was promised until there is nothing left and the team is reduced to a small number of people in bad health.
Accusations are one thing, facts another, regarding the previous post please help us better understand:
1. Do you have a revenue model? How much can be realized? How much will it cost to realize it? What events exist that are seeking sites? The cost is $200,000 per year upkeep and maintenance (that as far as I know did not include staff). The cost to build is $425,000 per year for 25 years.
2. Get a good contract. If the YMCA has made an offer, get a good contract that ensures you get what they've offered. This is the NASD's responsibility.
3. Safe assumption this is the water temperature issue again? Get it in the contract. Water temperature must be within +/- x degrees of y. Don't denounce before you've been declined. They also noted new systems were installed to improve air quality.
4. Taxes. The NASD has acknowledged without the MS building costs they cannot create a balanced budget for the 2007-8 year without cutting approx. $1 million and raising taxes by at least 4%. The new building and debt service will make it even more difficult. Not only is the pool wrong for us now, so is the building. The pool cost was noted above, not insignificant. Also, when was the last time there was not a tax hike in Nazareth?
5. Which students will receive swim lessons at the MS? The MS will hold two grades. The HS is nearby, but students would have to walk from building to building as busing doesn't seem practical. Winter time, HS students walk from building to new MS, change, take swim lesson for 30 minutes, change, walk back to building. Seems like a fair amount of time for a 30 minute class. What about elementary? Leave building in Bushkill, get on bus, drive to MS, get into building, go to locker room, change, go to pool for 30 minutes, back to locker room, back to bus, back to Bushkill. We have the shortest elementary day in the state according to Dr. Lesky. Can we afford an hour or so out of a six hour school day for swimming? Please articulate how this will be incorporated.
I haven't seen too many people supporting the all weather track and turf fields, so I wouldn't be arguing that point.
The bottom line is if you have facts, please present them so we can be informed. To date I haven't seen enough to persuade me that this is the right thing to do at this point in time given the overall budget situation.
The fact is that there is nothing wrong with the YMCA pool. The swim team just wants a pool and their supports will say anything, no matter how unkind or untrue to get what they want. What an example those parents are setting for our young people. After reading the paid ad in the US paper, I would suggest a 4th alternative: No swim team. You can't always get everything you want. This is a good life lesson in economics. The wants of the few should not have to be paid for by the many.
I have an issue with the argument that this pool is only for a handfull (50) kids on the swim team. The way I see it this pool would serve at least 600 kids that will be on the swim team during the next 25 years, which is the length of time it is being financed. When you consider the value of dollar 20 or 25 years from now, because of inflation, the "real" cost is not so intimidating. Perhaps there is a CPA out there who could calculate this. Also by drawing the cost out over 25 years it helps distribute its cost over more families and is fairer because why should all the present residents pay for something now that will benefit many many future classes.
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